The EPSU team recently co-hosted, with the Soros Foundation Romania, a meeting for Foundation program officers to discuss issues around the development of programming to promote School Success for Roma Children. The purposes of the meeting were to:

• to share information about the situation of the Roma population in the countries of the region;
• to exchange experience about programs that Foundations have supported which are aimed at Roma populations;
• to make site visits to a Roma community in Romania, and look at the model in that community;
• to establish a Strategic Working Group which will eventually develop a regional education strategy, with national guidelines, for school success for Roma children

Twelve program officers from nine countries, as well as EPSU staff and one Hungarian Roma educator, attended the three-day meeting. We would like to once again thank the Soros Foundation offices in Romania, in particular Liviu Matei and Magda Szekely from the Cluj office and Simona Botea from the Bucharest office for their outstanding organization and their warm hospitality throughout the meeting.

Meeting Outcomes

While the participants recognized the diversity amongst Roma populations in the region (in size, in language, in the degree to which the communities are integrated or marginalized in their countries, etc.), the group reached several common conclusions which will inform the development of strategies and programs targeting Roma children at the national level:

1. The lack of school success for Roma children in school is not the failure of Roma children, but the symptom of an unsuccessful school system. Foundation programs must recognize this and develop programs within a coherent strategy that addresses these systemic issues. For example, . . .. School success is among the most important issues in trying to improve the lives of Roma children.
1. The almost complete lack of knowledge in the gadjo (non-Roma) community about Roma culture, history, language, etc. leads to the extreme marginalization of Roma, and perpetuates existing prejudices and stereotypes. Programs of school success for Roma children must include working with the gadjo community.
1. The Roma community MUST be involved in the development of any Foundation educational programming targeting Roma children.
1. Roma programs, if they currently exist in the Foundations, tend to operate in isolation from other Foundation programs. Given the complexity of the issues facing the Roma community, it is essential that there is cooperation between various offices within OSI working on Roma programs, as well as cooperation within National Foundation programs (both Regional and national programs), if OSI’s efforts are to have real impact.

Role of EPSU

During the meeting the group explored Roma culture, visited schools, and discussed both the educational issues and program development issues surrounding Roma. The group identified several areas for immediate action, and established a Strategic Working Group which will meet again in January to write a concrete strategy and begin pilot programming. EPSU will continue its support role by organizing the Strategic Working Group meetings; facilitating the exchange of information between Foundations via e-mail; helping to organize study visits to existing education programs targeting Roma children as in Hungary; and providing technical assistance and moral support to Foundations as they begin or expand their Roma education programs.

Next Steps

In the near future the group agreed on the following next steps:

• The identification of several Roma educationalists from different countries in the region to be commissioned to develop a packet of materials for teachers and students about Roma culture. These educationalists will be speakers of Romanes (a common Roma language), and develop a broad and simple set of materials to introduce Roma culture. we anticipate that the materials would be developed in Romanes and English, and then be distributed to National Foundations for translation into the national languages of the region.
• Program officers will forward to EPSU any existing documentation about the situation of Roma in their countries. EPSU hopes to develop a central resource center, including a database of Roma education specialists, on Roma education. EPSU has already gathered useful materials from the European Roma Rights Center, and will also approach the Council of Europe, UNESCO, and other international organizations for information.
• EPSU will organize a meeting of the Strategic Working Group in January in Budapest, during which time the group will continue to work on a common regional strategy. The group will want to further discuss teacher training, parent and community involvement, scholarships for Roma children, and tutorial networks.

This meeting may also be combined with site visits to Hungarian Roma education programs, such as the Kalyi Jag and Ghandi schools, as well as other programs which have been supported by the Soros Foundation Hungary.

Funding for Roma Education Initiatives

After consulting with Aryeh Neier and Liz Lorant, we have the following understanding about funding for Roma education programs. Last June, during the National Foundation meetings in Budapest, the OSI Board introduced a fund which will support new initiatives on a matching fund basis. Roma programming was identified as a priority area for funding. This fund is being made available for initiatives on Roma education, and as Foundations develop such proposals they are encouraged to submit them to the OSI Board. If accepted, Foundations will receive funds on a matching basis for new Roma education initiatives.

With regards to the mentoring network model presented by the Soros Foundation Hungary, a special fund has been established to support the development of such networks in other countries. The fund will support teacher-student teams applying together for a monthly scholarship, as presented in the Hungarian model, but will allow for adaptation according to each country’s situation. This funding will come in the form of a one-year introductory grant, where Foundations would receive a lump-sum grant, knowing that if they wanted to continue and expand the program they would have to contribute funds from their national foundation budgets. The funding levels will be flexible, depending on the size of the Roma population in country, the salary standards for teachers in that country, etc. Foundations can expect a formal announcement of this program to be issued to Executive Directors in January.

Wednesday, 11 December

9:00 am	Welcome/ Why are we here? 

Susan Rona, Director, EPSU

Icebreakers/ personal introductions

All participants

facilitated by Nancy Green and Heather Iliff, EPSU

9:45 am	Introductory lecture: Who are the Roma?

followed by question and answer session 

Choli Daroczi Jozsef, Hungarian Roma educator and poet

11:15 am	Coffee break

11:45 am	Begin country presentations (10 minutes each, 
		followed by 5 minutes of questions)

Country presentations should be BRIEF, 
and address the following questions:

What approach is your country and your Foundation 
taking towards helping Roma children succeed in school?

What are your reflections on this approach 
(is it effective? has it been successful?)

What would you like to get out of this initial meeting?

Romania	Croatia

Albania	Czech Republic	

Bulgaria	

1:00 pm	Lunch

2:00 pm	Continue Country presentations

Hungary	Slovakia

Macedonia	Ukraine

Lithuania	

3:15 pm	break

3:45 pm	Group Discussion

7:00 pm	Dinner

Thursday, 12 December 

9:00 am	Briefing on site visits

Simona Botea, Liviu Matei, Soros Foundation Romania

9:30 am	Depart for school and community visits

5:00 pm Return/ debriefing on visits and what we’ve seen

7:00 pm	Dinner

Friday, 13 December

9:00 am	Roma Education Strategies in Hungary: A Case Study

Peter Rado, Special Adviser, EPSU

Ferenc Arato, Program Coordinator, 
Soros Foundation Hungary

10:00 am	Coffee break

10:30 am	School Success for Roma Children: 
		A Theoretical Framework

Susan Rona, EPSU

12:00 pm	Lunch

1:00 pm	Strategic planning session

2:30 pm	break

3:00 pm	Strategic planning session

7:00 pm	Closing dinner/ party

Saturday, 14 December

All day	departures

School Success for Roma Children

Cluj, Romania, December 11-13, 1996

Reports by Foundations on Roma Initiatives in the Field of Education:

ALBANIA

Report by Alketa Klosi and Zhulieta Harasani

There are 100,000 Roma in Albania, in four different groups with distinct dialects. There is no special state policy toward Roma. The Open Society Fund policy has been to promote programs that a) develop self-esteem and b) strengthen traditions. The four components of the program are:

• Support to a Roma newspaper, in partnership with a Dutch foundation. It is published in Romanes (in four dialects) and in Albanian.
• Support of a Roma football team
• Support of Roma artistic groups, in cooperation with the Ministry of Education and Culture
• Roma language class

The Roma language class has been supported as a pilot program in a remote village with a high population of Roma. The program aims to teach the children to read and write in the Roma language, and it is taught by two local members of the community who initiated the program. The Foundation provided furniture for the classroom, teaching materials (including a Romanes ABC book).

The Foundation is interested in identifying a specialist in the area of Roma language to evaluate the materials that have been developed and the curriculum of the classes. And, the Foundation is looking toward networking this pilot program with other like initiatives in Roma communities in Central Europe.

The AEDP has not yet developed programming in this area, but is hoping to use the outcomes of this meeting to form a basis for integrating needs of Roma children into the 1997 AEDP initiatives. The AEDP would like to place a special emphasis in pre-service and in-service teacher training.

BULGARIA

Report by Sonia Asenova

There is an estimated Roma population of 1 million in Bulgaria. The Open Society Fund began working in Roma programs in 1996. A board composed mainly of representatives of the Roma community has been established. The main focus of the Foundation programs has been in the field of small business development. Seventy to seventy-five percent of Roma in Bulgaria are unemployed. In its initial year of operation, the program funded 43 projects supporting small business through grants. Grant recipients must give 10% of the funds received to a school or kindergarten in their area.

In addition, the program supports the Roma music school in Sofia and provides support to individual students. In 1997, the Foundation plans to develop language courses for Roma children and support programs for talented Roma children.

CROATIA

Report by Vinko Zidaric (Vesna Puhovsky of the OSI Croatia was unable to attend)

The Roma community is estimated to be 30,000 - 60,000 in Croatia, although the official census shows only 7,000. There is a political party representing Roma, the Croatian Roma Party. There are several Roma groups and NGOs working toward articulation of rights and preservation of cultural identity. In schools there is a high level of drop-out, and courses are needed in the Roma language.

A conference in 1994, "Education of Romany" tried to develop a strategy for educational changes. It stressed the need for a scientific approach, and to try some innovative programs. One significant problem identified was the lack of knowledge of Croatian language: 80% of girls and 45% of boys did not understand Croatian before attending school.

The Association of Romany, with support from the OSI Croatia, has sponsored a pilot summer camp with 20 Roma children and 20 non-Roma. The camp stressed intercultural and bi-lingual courses.

CZECH REPUBLIC

Report by Helena Kocanova

The Foundation has worked toward including Roma youth in the Step by Step kindergarten program and in the scholarships program. Fifty to sixty Roma students have received secondary and university scholarships this year. The Foundation developed a summer program for drop-out students in 1996, but unfortunately it was not successful. In the future, the Foundation aims to support activities centers for Roma, to education Roma about the laws in Czech Republic, and to push for changes in government policy toward Roma.

HUNGARY

Report by Ferenc Arato

(See attached program summary.)

MACEDONIA

Report by Gazmend Ilazi

Situation of Roma in Macedonia: According to the official census, there are 47,408 Roma in Macedonia. The Roma communities are diverse, and some report themselves as Albanian, Turkish, or Egyptian in the official census. There are two major groups, one in the East and one in the West. The Western group tend to be of the Muslim faith and the Eastern group tend to be Orthodox. Two members of parliament in Macedonia are Roma. According to official statistics, there are only 5,000 Roma in primary school, 252 in secondary school, and 14 in university. There is a Humanitarian Association of Roma that completed a new alphabet for the Roma language in September, 1996 and are developing other programs to promote Roma language.

Foundation Programs: The Foundation’s work has focused on NGO development, and support of six or seven strong Roma NGOs. Two Roma newspapers are supported by the Foundation, as well as a monthly bi-lingual journal. In 1995, the Foundations sponsored a summer school for 20 students for three weeks. They found that those students were more successful in school the following year. In 1997, the Foundation plans to sponsor a pilot project to support Roma in primary school, including teacher training.

ROMANIA

Report by Liviu Matei and Simona Botea

Situation of Roma: Romania has the largest Roma population in Europe. Officially, there are 400,000 Roma, but other estimates range from 1.5 million to 2 million (between 10 and 15% of the population). About half of the Roma population speak Romanes and the other half speak either Romanian or Hungarian. There have been special measures taken by the government as a result of international pressure and pressure by Roma organizations. Legally, Roma are entitled to all citizens rights, including right to attend 8-year school. The government also developed special pedagogic schools to train Roma people to become teachers. This approach has not been completely successful, but is shows a readiness on the part of the government to address the issue. There is a form of affirmative action for Roma students to attend university. Ten places at the University of Bucharest and 10 places at the University of Cluj are reserved for Roma in the social sciences only. The problem is, there is no strategy and no coherent policy. Nor has there been a thorough needs assessment or analysis.

Foundation programs: Until this point, the Foundation has been active in Roma education programs on an ad hoc basis. The Foundation is interested in developing an overall strategy in the field, using this meeting as a starting point. Currently, the Foundation is involved in several different types of programming in the field: a) a school program in Bucharest through working with teachers, and university students (in the field of social work) as volunteers. b) health education and reproductive health education in Timisoara in conjunction with the Regional program, and c) community development in Cluj with partner organization Medicins Sans Frontieres. A board composed of representatives of the Roma community has been established in Bucharest. The Foundation has identified several key principles to guide them in developing Roma education programs:

• The diversity of situations of Roma must have a diversity of solutions.
• Education and school attendance of Roma children is part of a wider set of issues including health, sanitation, unemployment, etc.
• Programs must cooperate with government institutions and NGOs.
• The issue of Roma is part of the overall inter-ethnic issue in Romania
• Programs must deal with stereotypes and prejudices. Sometimes programs are successful in bringing Roma children to school but they are not accepted by the general community of the school.

SLOVAKIA

Report by Eva Koncokova

Situation of Roma in Slovakia: There are 300,000 Roma in Slovakia which constitutes about 5% of the population. The government has developed a policy to support Roma children in school through the creation of the "zero grade" or kindergarten classes for Roma (and other disadvantaged groups) in primary schools to provide pre-school learning opportunities.

In April, 1991, the Slovak government adopted "The principles of government policy in Slovak Republic towards Roma" which stipulated three fundamental principles:

1) Equality of Roma with other national communities living on the territory of SR.

2) Equal treatment in social sphere. It sees Roma as state’s citizens with equal rights in terms of social security.

3) The Slovak government cancels the central control of solutions to Roma problems implemented during communist era and transfers this power and responsibility to city councils.

Foundation Programs: The Foundation has sponsored Roma community centers, as well as the InfoRoma Center which provides advisory services, legal advocacy and publication activities. Roma children and parents are also involved in the 15 Step by Step kindergarten sites.

This summer, the Foundation sponsored a special pilot project for Roma youth who had dropped out of school. The purpose of the project was to assess the needs of the students with the aim of developing a special program for drop-outs. In the future, the Foundation hopes to further develop the community centers and expand to educational centers for Roma youth.

UKRAINE

Report by Olena Sichkar

Situation of Roma in Ukraine: There are about 50,000 Roma in Ukraine which comprises only about 0.9% of the population. The largest Roma populations are concentrated in the western part of Ukraine, near the borders with Slovakia and Hungary. There are approximately 30,000 school-aged children, and there are no special schools for Roma. In 1994 a Roma ABC book was published by the university, and a Roma theater has opened in Kiev.

Foundation Programs: The Foundation has not developed special programs for Roma in the field of education. It hopes to gain a better understanding of the strategic issues from this meeting. In 1997, the Foundation hopes to include Roma issues in workshops for teachers, health education, and summer camps.

School Success for Roma Children

Cluj, Romania, December 11-13, 1996

Address^* by Joszef Choli Daroczi

Joszef Choli Daroczi is a Professor of Romology at the Teacher’s College in Zsambek, Hungary, an educator in the Kalyi Jag Roma vocational school, as well as an accomplished poet and translator.

I am one of the real Olah, meaning a Roma person who speaks Romanes. In my experience, I have seen that most of the people who are involved with Roma children are not Roma themselves. They are gadjo, or non-Roma, or white. One of the conclusions after years of work in this field, is that studying the issues alone does not lead to results.

In thinking about education for Roma children, we must first ask what do we mean by "values" in Europe? Are European moral values in fact the values of Roma? I am convinced that Roma values are different and there are historic and cultural reasons for this.

When we tell a Roma child how they are to act in school, we hold for them the same expectations that we have for gadjo children. And, there are Roma children who will obey. But, are the things that are being taught in school of real value to a Roma child? In my experience, the answer is no. Roma children cannot incorporate the values learned, and less and less so. Such a rift between the Roma and the rest of society has developed that Roma children are not part of the society. They cannot use society’s values in their every day life. If a Roma child is educated in the standard way and goes back to live inside the Roma community, he/she would starve. The life skills a Roma child needs are very different from the life skills of a gadjo child. The curriculum of a normal school does not allow a Roma child to function in society or learn the skills they need. As long as there is a rift in society between the Roma and the non-Roma, there will continue to be problems in education. The European education system wants to create gadjos out of Roma children. Yet, if a Roma succeeds in school, they are not accepted into the gadjo society anyway.

"If we want Roma children to succeed in school, we must build our pedagogy around the needs of Roma children and get out of the box of trying to get the Roma child to fit into the traditional European model."

Before 1948, Roma people did not send their children to school, but they knew how to make a living. Today, Roma parents send their children to school for three reasons: 1) fear of reprisal from the government, 2) to receive economic aid, or 3) for baby-sitting. There is no real interest in learning. What is more important to a Roma parent is to what extent the child takes part in and becomes an active member of the community, and to what extent the child takes on the role assigned to him/her.

A Roma child in a Roma family is treated as a small adult. The only difference is the person is smaller. The child has full rights as a member of society and can participate in all family and community discussions. In school, they feel they should have a say in what happens at school. They are not used to asking for permission. If a child wants to talk in class or leave the class, they do as they would do at home. Immediately, conflicts arise between the Roma child and the institution of school. The Child does not want to go to school anymore, he thinks "the teacher hates me, she doesn’t like Roma." Both the teacher and the child are right. The teacher is behaving according to the norms of their own society, but they don’t know the culture of each others’ societies. The teacher and child do not know how to recognize the conflict and realize they are on parallel tracks. The teacher realizes that the child is unmanageable and sends the child to special education classes. The fate is sealed. The teacher concludes that there will always be problems with Roma children. After a few failures, the teacher will give up (with a few exceptions). The child feels an aversion to going into this institution, because he feels he is being picked on.

In this situation, two types of personalities emerge: the inactive, passive child and the aggressive angry one. Both types represent serious problems for the entire society. The passive, inactive person is just as serious a problem as the deviant one. Societies that deal with Roma educational issues draw a long list of conclusions. But we must get out of our box as educators and really take a look at Roma communities and accept them for who they are. If we want Roma children to succeed in school, we must build our pedagogy around the needs of Roma children and get out of the box of trying to get the Roma child to fit into the traditional European model.

"We must get to the point, through teacher training and other programs, where the two values [of Roma and non-Roma communities] can work together."

Roma children have no role models in positions in society. In 18th and 19th centuries, there was no written Roma tradition. In the 1970s in Hungary, a few artists and intellectuals began to write in Roma language, and Roma art began to emerge. Today there are 27 Roma writers in Hungary. Thirteen are members of the Hungarian Writers Association. Why were there only musicians up until now? Because the gadjo teacher is not a model for Roma children. Roma parents have always sent their children to work with musicians, and now they send them to work with writers. If more teachers were Roma, children would have role models.

There is a continuous tension between the child and the gadjo community. This is evident from the way the child’s parents are treated. People take on a demeaning manner toward Roma. For example, when a Roma person enters the municipal government building to inquire on an issue, in Hungary they are often addressed using the informal form. The Roma person is immediately placed into the role of the inferior, and they will continue to interact in that role as an inferior. When a Roma family comes to a parent-teacher meeting, the Roma mother is so concerned about the role she is playing, she says "yes, teacher" to everything, and there is no communication happening. If the relationship were different -- and it is the role of the teacher to try to understand the Roma norms and culture -- miracles will happen.

"School must be a multi-cultural environment where Roma children feel safe to step in and be a part of the school community."

On the question of moral values... In the declaration of human rights, everyone has the right to live. And, there is a commandment in the Bible, "Thou shalt not steal." The Roma community cannot reconcile these two values. The Roma would starve if they try to live by that rule. For example, in a Hungarian village, of say, 650 inhabitants where 250 are Roma, there can be a situation of 100% unemployment among the Roma community. With odd jobs and begging, the other 400 inhabitants of the town cannot possibly support the 250 Roma living there. In order to live, in order to feed their families, Roma resort to stealing. The Roma have been completely marginalized and left out of the positive democratic changes that have happened in Eastern Europe. And, at the same time, many have been cut out of the benefits of the previous system. Where state-owned properties are being privatized, how many Roma people have been able to become owners? The majority of Roma have not managed to gain any property.

The Soros Foundations can give money, but it must be looked at as a complex integrated approach. Health, social issues, job training, all must be considered or else it’s just throwing money out the window. We must show Roma people that it is worth it to live like gadjos. Roma are accused of not taking a role in helping themselves, but how can they be active if they don’t understand how to? If we are going to work with the Roma community, we must do it as we would work with children: in basic steps that can be understood and built upon. In a peasant community in this region, the peasants are limited in the kinds of ways they can operate. But the Roma community is not even part of the peasant community. Peasants are part of the mainstream in that role, while the Roma lives outside. They are marginalized.

The first thing educators need to know and understand is what the Roma community is about. They must know and understand the values of the Roma community. They must understand the fact that the values of the Roma community and the gadjo community don’t work together. We must get to the point, through teacher training and other programs, where the two values can work together. We must take the positive values of the Roma community and work them into the pedagogy. School must be a multi-cultural environment where Roma children feel safe to step in and be a part of the school community.

Question and Answer

1. What motivated you to become an educator? (Nancy Green)

I was afraid you would ask that! I have a complicated past. I was born in Romania, and as a child my parents moved to Hungary. We settled in a Romanian town, and my parents did not speak Hungarian. The surrounding villages were Hungarian, and the Romanians had similar problems as a minority. We were a minority within a minority.

When I left my village and went to Budapest, I wondered what was wrong with me. Why didn’t I have any friends. I kept looking to myself, and I kept trying to prove myself. I talked to my teacher at gymnasium whom I showed my poetry. He asked if I was going on to the teachers college. Like a normal Gypsy talking to a gadjo, I nodded "of course, teacher college! That’s what I’m going to do!"

I wanted to be Hungarian. At teachers college, I realized it wasn’t possible because of my skin color. But there was no road back anymore.

My first job was in a school of 1500 students. I felt like a fly in the milk. Children would ask "is this a human being?" From a child it could by kind of sweet for a while. But the feeling when I talked to teachers -- they were astonished that I could put together a sentence in Hungarian; that it was possible that this Roma could be an educator. I thought I was stupid and I had to prove myself.

2. You spoke of the need for educators to understand Roma values. What are the values that you think are important for them to know? (Susan Rona)

Roma people, like all people, have values. We look at the values with different perspectives. For example, I will talk about love as a concept. In the Roma family, the relationships are more tightly knit than in European families. Roma parents are very close to their children and love them dearly. In most European cultures, we want children to grow up and be independent. In Roma families, there is not this break. Many generations will live together. The elders in a Roma community have a very important role. Roma families do not discard their old people. I have never seen an old Roma person in an institution. The structure of family relationships is very different. There is a very strong community feeling. If they meet on the street, they have strong feeling that they belong together. Europeans tend to walk by each other.

This also applies financially. If I have it, you have it too. They share the wealth. Maybe this is why there is no private property. They will not let each other starve. In the poor community where I grew up, children were not allowed to starve. Bread was first distributed to children. Children are brought up by the community, not just the parents. In terms of their trade, and other areas.

One of the roles of the elders is storytelling to children. This is a positive value -- the literary and folk traditions. Positive values still exist in the Roma community and are fast disappearing in the European world.

Roma children have excellent gross motor skills -- to climb, make a fire, or cook. Although, they do not posses the fine motor skills like holding a pen. The practical aspects of life are learned early. These gifts could be built upon in the pedagogy.

3. How can these facts coexist with the fact that there are 50,000 Roma children in Romania who have been abandoned and institutionalized? (Liviu Matei)

I was waiting for this question. In Hungary, we don’t find old Roma people in institutions, but the institutions for children are full. Roma children are not deserted, they are taken away. The state (local governments) are given the function of child protectors. A gadjo woman from the state is given the responsibility of going into the family with a checklist of what a baby should have. How many square meters of space, how many shelves, a crib, etc. They conclude that the child is in danger and the child is taken away. Eighty percent of the children in the institutions are taken away from their parents.

But in Romania, I think some of the values you spoke of earlier have been lost. (Liviu Matei).

In Hungary, there was a ruling in the 1960s that had three goals: a) to get rid of Roma hovels, b) to get Roma children in school, and c) to get jobs for Roma. When they eliminated the hovels, they eliminated the communities. When you disperse the communities, you lose the community values. Now, Roma are moving to more individual lifestyles. Roma girls are giving birth at ages 12 or 13, and they are no longer surrounded by a supportive community. The values are in trouble and the young Roma are lost. Young girls often bring their babies to institutions out of necessity. This is a result of societal interventions.

4. Are there still Roma who are nomadic? (Nancy Green)

Not in Hungary, and none that fit the colorful stereotypes. Up until the 1920s, a lot of Roma were considered wanderers. The definition was that they were not registered anywhere and had no citizenship. There are still reports of ‘travelers’ in Northern England, but as far as I know, these traveling Roma do not exist in Eastern Europe. Most have citizenship and homes. I may get in a car and go somewhere, but I come back. Wanderers used to go and keep going.

5. You spoke of children being treated as small adults. What does that mean on a practical level? Does it mean that, if the family would move to a new apartment, they would ask the child if he agrees? (Alqueta Klosi)

Exactly. But, it is not a matter of being asked, but the fact that in the discussion, the child gives opinions. Whether the child’s opinion prevails is another question. It is not expected that a Roma child goes to bed at a certain hour. Its part of a discussion. This leads to a more serious issue -- it becomes a problem for the child to get up. There is no tradition of punctuality or time. When does he go to school? When he gets up. He may arrive at school during the third lesson. When the teacher asks, the child would say, "What? I got up, my mother went to the market, and I came here." The child models the behavior of the parents -- the father does not go to work, the child does not go to school.

The "School Success for Roma Children" meeting in Cluj, Romania, December 11-13, 1996, was sponsored by the Education Program Support Unit (EPSU) of the Open Society Institute, Budapest and the Cluj Branch of the Soros Foundation, Romania. The meeting was held for Soros Foundation education program staff. This address was transcribed by Heather Iliff, OSI Budapest, December 17, 1996.